There is a "Blood Bath" coming 2010,

and it will make the one in 1994 look tame.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...




Howard Dean stated on MSNBC that if the Democrats do NOT provide some immediate REAL relief like expanding Medicare to 55 BEFORE the elections, we could possibly lose The House.

There will be NO "Fixing it Later".
There will be NO "adding a Public Option later."
Even if The Democrats are successful at adding some "regulations" to this Health Care Bill to make it seem more palatable,
they will simply be De-Regulated after the Blood Bath.
THAT is what Republicans and "Centrist" Democrats do....De-Regulate.
(SEE: NAFTA, repeal of Glass-Steagal)

We are going to be forced to live with the FOUNDATION of this Bill for a LONG time,
and that FOUNDATION is:
Mandatory Profits for the Health Insurance Industry.
Every American WILL be forced to contribute to these profits,
AND America WILL blame the Democratic Party.
Rightly so.

Democrats are paid with the same money, to do mostly the same things as Republicans.

Until we can manage to cut off the spigot of money, into campaigns, lobbyists doing favors, before, and after they "serve" (themselves, pretty much) we'll have a political system of legalized bribery.

I understand why Rangel, Stevens, Jefferson, and others have trouble finding the line of demarkation from legal, to illegal, when you consider all the ways money can be paid to them, perfectly legally. It must get confusing.

I'm just thinking of Bullworth...

Sometimes you get the feeling that he just doesn't care. Surely he is bright enough to know this.

He just doesn't give a crap. He is so busy kissing smelly repug ass he has lost sight of the majority of Americans who supported him. He won by over 9 million votes. If he had given half the attention he gives to the repugs to his base and his supporters, he and the Democratic Party would be flying high now. For one thing, we would have meaningful health care reform months ago that would have gutted big insurance and big pharma instead of the craptaceous bills coming his way now which benefit no one, except of course big insurance and big pharma.

In 2012, if he is given permission by the repugs to run, he'll be lucky to survive the primaries. I wouldn't vote for him again. In 2010 he will likely lose both houses of congress. We'll see what he has to say about bipartisanship then. But he will still not give a crap. He'll have the $28 million he got from big insurance to guarantee that nothing threatens their billions to keep him warm. After all, he is just another politician selling out America for the rich guys' money.

says that he's going to use a Repuke majority in both sides of Congress as a springboard for his own election. He's got to figure that Congress is always going to be a despised institution, and any dysfunction between January, 2011 and November, 2012 can be blamed on a Rethug Congress that isn't giving him anything to work with.

Large ones like boil on the ass Limpballs

If he doesn't pass anything, he an the left wing of the party lose their jobs in 2012. If he passes this bill, the right wing and centrist of the party lose in 2010, but he keeps his job in 2012. To him it doesn't matter anymore what is in the bill. He needs to pass it, or he will appear like he can't control the party. Political science 101, save your own job before everybody else's.

Except for the few willing to both talk and vote corporate.

http://whipcongress.com/

makes you different than the left?

Complicit.

the game is unsustainable (antiquated)

Complicit.

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How old are you? Maybe I should be less harsh, you know, if you are a kid.

I stand corrected? Maybe. That was a lil unclear.

Yep, that would be the reason I've become disgusted with the Democrats - this much incompetence can't be blamed on incompetence. It's collusion, complicity.

as well as weaklings and antiquated.

they are mostly assholes.

The New Right Wing(to the Right of every administration before Reagan), while the repugs have turned themselves into a party of illiterate Fascist Authoritarians. At this point both the Left and the Right just need a fresh start with entirely new parties.

Amazes me how many people wring their hands over supposed Democratic "incompetence" or "weakness."

Note to handwringers:

THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. THEY ARE SERVING THEIR CORPORATE CONSTITUENTS.

but sold out 100% to the military/industrial/bigpharma lobby.

it's past time for progressives to leave the democratic party.

Corrupt!

of those expensive DC restaurants).

How long is your "fast"





Inquiring minds would like to know.

I don't think any Democrat that this county can produce, is going to beat out Adams.

Based on past performance of Congress and the Senate and the bill (as it is) before them, I don't see any "reform" in the letters "HCR".

It's more like "HCT" - Health Care Tinkering.

in the way of helping us out of all these problems. (NOT) So why again are they an automatic shoo-in?

The Republicans are a cancer for the country but they don't make any bones about it. They stand for things and support them, however bad those things may be. The Democrats pretend they are for the people but never back it up with action so they don't seem to stand for anything. They look like the spineless weasels they are.

That is it, exactly. People want to know their leaders stand for something. How many voters believe Obama did not campaign on a public option? Even if they are not in favor of a public option, does it look principled to deny he campaigned on it when most people heard it with their own ears? Anything would have been better than saying that. It does not evoke feelings of trust. And most Americans vote their feelings and their pocketbooks. Their pocketbooks are a lost cause, right now. So, inspiring some trust would not have been a bad idea.

So much for helping the poor.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=2814...

And CALL THEIR BLOATED POMPOUS ARROGANT ASSES OUT on it.

We could blow these guys out of the water on this it we tried, but our gutless wonders in the leadership just won't do it.

Just like, if Palin does get in in 2012, the same gutless wonders will insist that whatever pitiful remnant remains of our congressional representation "will owe it to the country" to pass everything she wants, like they did with Reagan in the Eighties and Dubbikins for the last eight cowardly years.

BTW...does anyone else expect we're going to start seeing references to the "New Romney" in the MSM sometime soon?

It's to stand around and let the other guy fuck up. Let's be honest, did many Dems really work for it in 2006, or did they just stand back and let the scandals do the work?

My fear is an upcoming "entitlement reform" in the Republican-controlled congress - some kind of an atrocity that Reagan/Bushies/Gingrich Repubs didn't even dream about being able to get away with.

I've read many of your posts and you always say it like it is. Some say it's repetitive but it's no b.s. The Dems have the biggest majority they have had in years and they can't get it done now. So HOW in the hell would this p.o.s. get "fixed" later?!

If they really wanted to retain power they would do what the people want but they, with few exceptions, honestly don't want to help the people at the expense of the corporate masters. They don't care about us. It's easier to feign outrage when the Republicans push the agenda they really support. The game is rigged and neither party is worth a bucket of piss.

But not a teaspoon of piss more than that!

Barbecue 'im??

while the right launders GOP and chamber of commerce and lobbyist talking points through 1000 coordinated UNCONTESTED radio stations with an often captive audience the size of the one that voted for obama.

year after year the left ignores that they have the biggest soapbox in history and they use it to dominate all framing and messaging.

dems can win big if they start picketing the main limbaugh stations that do the heavy lifting on the obstruction and which are now determining many state level primaries- who's too progressive in the dem primaries and whos not insane enough on the right. make the obstructionist dems choose between limbaugh and obama/america.

but as far as media divestment, de-consolidation and re-regulation is concerned, the chances of that are about even more remote than effective Wall Street reform.

...when he signed the "Telecommunications Act" de-regulating Media Ownership in 1996 to "encourage competition".
.
.
.
.
I was right then too.



Whenever a "Centrist" Democrat tell you that they are going to "encourage competition", you had better hide your wallet.

The pitch at the time was that it would lower cable rates and increase competition!

Those of us familiar with and who worked on the issue knew and warned about what would happen.

Cable rates in our neck of the woods shot up 30% with a year and local radio stations went generic and conglomerate, leaving up and coming artists out of the mix. Hell, we even got payola back! Yay for deregulation.

I am starting to think these centrists are not operating in our best interests...

The 'centrists' don't have our best interests at heart?!?

After Cheap Channel was able to go hog wild, buying up all the radio stations, bleeding them dry and tossing them aside like used Kleenex.

So much for diversity.

but I recently found out that the local radio station I often listened to as a kid who had just discovered radio, has now gone the way of the dinosaur, just as the local newspaper has. "Tossing them away like used kleenex"... that pretty much sums it up.

if it happens. Really.

When given the choice between a Democrat and a Republican who acts like a Democrat, the voters will choose the Republican.

Sorry, as much as I hate this, it appears to be the political dynamic in America.

Because the R's, even "RINOs", understand what a spine is and how to use it.

...because the Republican who acts like a Democrat is nixed during the primaries.

The time of the liberal Republican came and went, they've whittled the party down to their conservative core.

OTOH, "big tent" Democrats are always willing to move to the corporatist "center" while pandering to the gullible base. Democrats have been cowed into supposing we must triangulate to win, and Republicans have come to understand that compromise is not the way to generate momentum behind movement politics.

My prediction: Democrats will maintain slimmer control over both houses in 2010, by representing a tenuous coalition of liberals and those who remember just how lousy the bush years really were. Meantime, the Republicans will be building up their base and getting a huge warchest of corporate money ready to go. 2010 doesn't worry me so much, but 2012 is going to be scary as hell.

Dude!

used to be a regular, now I just circulate on the margins of the edge of the perimeter.

But that sort of happened to you for a while, too, no?

Methinks it may be high time to call for another PDX-area DU meetup at some microbrewery TBD!

Maybe he can be the last President to deal with all issues as we watch the nation collapse around us. Neat.

1835 was a little before Lewis' time.
But 1935 would coincide with the date of his book, "It Can't Happen Here".

Arggh.

Because it's such a great quote.

Marcia Angell on Bill Moyers' Show:

<www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03052010/watch3.html |DCScripts>

BILL MOYERS: So, has President Obama been fighting as hard as you wished?

MARCIA ANGELL: Fighting for the wrong things and too little, too late. He gave away the store at the very beginning by compromising. Not just compromising, but caving in to the commercial insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry. And then he stood back for months while the thing just fell apart. Now he's fighting, but he's fighting for something that shouldn't pass. Won't pass and shouldn't pass.

What this bill does is not only permit the commercial insurance industry to remain in place, but it actually expands and cements their position as the lynchpin of health care reform. And these companies they profit by denying health care, not providing health care. And they will be able to charge whatever they like. So if they're regulated in some way and it cuts into their profits, all they have to do is just raise their premiums. And they'll do that.

Not only does it keep them in place, but it pours about 500 billion dollars of public money into these companies over 10 years. And it mandates that people buy these companies' products for whatever they charge. Now that's a recipe for the growth in health care costs, not only to continue, but to skyrocket, to grow even faster.

BILL MOYERS: But given that, why have the insurance companies, health insurance companies been fighting reform so hard?

MARCIA ANGELL: Oh, they haven't fought it very hard, Bill. They really haven't fought it very hard. What they're fighting for is the individual mandate. And if they get that mandate, if everyone does have to buy their commercial products, then they're going to be extremely happy with it.

.........

EITHER THAT OR SCARED TO DEATH OBAMA - NOT SURE WHICH BUT LEANING TOWARDS THE FORMER.

disappear into the woodwork when that time comes. Those progressives and liberals who
buy into this will be standing in front of the world with egg on their faces to the
utter delight of these so called Centrist, Blue Dogs and Lieberman Liberals.

I say shit can the fucker, Drive a stake through its Corporate heart and push for REAL
HCR in either the Medicare for all or the Federal Employees Health Insurance program


Democrats will go down in history as supporting this trash and Re-pukes
will use it as a hammer until Jesus come a knock'in.
Anything less than those two options is Bullshit and we all know it.

K&R Great Post

And what Rahm wants. Rahm GETS.

He can quit finding Senators to scapegoat for the move to the right.

Weird how that works.

Dennis K will not vote for the bill.

our progressives in Congress!)

Don't waste your money on a DLCer who filibusters with Republicans. They are worthless to us.

In fact, we should be targeting them --

The average low information American voter isn't aware that there is a difference between a "Centrist" and a "Progressive" Democrat.

It WILL be "The Democrats forced this down our throats" while Premiums continue to rise and 40 MILLION Americans are FORCED to BUY Health Insurance that MOST will not be able to afford to use (High Deductibles/High CoPay). A few Americans will benefit, but MOST will be unhappy with this bill once they unwrap their NEW Democratic Health Care Package and find a BILL from the For Profit Health Insurance Industry who will be running the WHOLE show.

The most infuriating thing for me was watching the Obama/Democrats over the course of a year slowly give the Republicans almost everything they wanted without forcing the Republicans to take ANY Political Risk.


All the Republicans have to do now is sit back and say, "Yep. We opposed it.

I agree that the ONLY thing we can do is support the Progressives in Primaries.
I live in Arkansas (recent transplant) and was delighted to find that a Progressive (Bill Halter) is challenging Blanche Lincoln.
Imagine my despair after hearing Obama strongly endorsed Blue Dog Blanche Lincoln.

It is very difficult to challenge "Centrist" incumbents in Primaries when the entire might of the "Centrist" Democratic Party Leadership (including Primary funding from the DSCC/DCCC) is ready to steamroll Progressive challengers.

the **Republican** primary as well as the Democratic primary. All progressives have to do is be openly progressive and we'll keep our progressives in Congress.

and especially do not give them any funding. I used to contribute to all the DSCC, DLC, etc., but no more. I have not nor will I contribute one dime or make one phone call or do anything to support any of these groups. I will contribute individually to Halter, Grayson and their ilk, but the party will get squat because that's what they have been doing over any so called values they allegedly posses.

per Sen. Bernie Sanders --

And, I'm quite sure that Obama knows that, as well!

corporate agenda?

It's DLC that needs to be pushed out of this party --

and Rahm Emmanuel pushed out of the White House --

Obama has to make up his mind -- otherwise he can go with them --